Enviado para la publicacion en el Blog. De todas maneras , las listas que enviaste tu son las de los propietarios de Liverpool. Rothschild solicito disculpas por haber sido el FINANCISTA del mercadeo de esclavos desde el Reino Unido . Asi que todos ellos ( los que no tenian fondos ) debieron acudir al Banco Rothschild por fondos.
Las listas que se presentan son las de esclavistas americanos ya sea nor , centro o sudamericanos. Si tienes mas informacion te ruego hacermela llegar.
Saludos
Las listas que se presentan son las de esclavistas americanos ya sea nor , centro o sudamericanos. Si tienes mas informacion te ruego hacermela llegar.
Saludos
PS.: Los archivos PDF que Marcos gentilmente me envio no pueden ser accesados en este tipo de Blog.
MarcosF
Pero te aclaro que no he leido los cuatro tomos (600 pp c/u). No. ni los pienso leer!!!
Me limité a encontrar un amigo, vecino tuyo, catamarqueño, que vive en Pittsburg, que se fue hasta la biblioteca y pidio los libros. Luego scaneo indices y algunas tablas y me las envio por mail. El los tiene en su oficina para ser consultados y hasta elucidar el origen de este desencuentro.
Imaginaba que tu habias sacado la info de alguna fuente secundaria (que citara a Donnan). Tu dices que es The secret relations between Blacks and Jews pero me parece ver que este libro está editado por The Nation of Islam... y visto el malhadado conflicto desatado o recrudecido actualmente, le restaría objetividad. (Es como preguntarle a un bosnio lo que opina de un serbio en medio de las trincheras... o a un hutu de un tutsi...)
En relacion a tu generoso ofrecimiento de publicar el tema en tu blog, te lo agradezco pero no soy muy docto para estos menesteres y temo papelonear.
Sí me parece, en cambio, que para salvaguardar la credibilidad de tu Chiwulltun sería conveniente que le dieras a las fotocopias escaneadas que te envié (y las que te envio ahora), alguna especie de Fe de Erratas... como respaldo rectificatorio/ratificatorio a lo que ya habias publicado antes.
Bastaría con aclarar que la fuente de tu tabla no eran los cuatro tomos de la Donnan sino el resumen que apareciera en The secret relations between Blacks and Jews (quien dice haberlo extraido de la Donnan), pero que resulta dificil reconstruir a partir del contenido de informacion de las tablas scanneadas.
Tambien recibí un mail tuyo donde me decias que en dichos barcos estaba Rothschild, cosa coherente con el pedido de disculpas reciente (2009) link que yo te enviara y tu me reenviaras de vuelta. Pero sigo sin encontrar la forma de asociar Owner con Rothschild. Sería un trabajito no menor Googlearlo uno por uno. Solo en la tabla del Vol2_642 hay 150 registros!!!
Los 6 barcos (de los 15 reportados por The secret relations between Blacks and Jews) cuyos Nombres coinciden con las tablas de Donnan Owner no suman ni el 3% del total y sumando sus cargas no hay sino el 4% del trafico para esa linea y ese año. Ignoro si peinando las 2400 paginas no surge algo mas preciso... y precioso.
Gran Oraculo, Como bien comprenderás me impulsa el deseo de eludir toda sombra de engaño... tratando de recordar lo que te dijera hace poco sobre la paradoja etimológica que LA VERDAD tuviera varios antonimos que no son sinonimos entre ellos: el ERROR, la MENTIRA / ENGAÑO y la CONVICCION.
Visto que no estamos tan convencidos como para arrostizar a quienes nos indican una perspectiva nueva... ni tampoco tenemos el espíritu mendaz del "mediante el engaño harás la guerra"... solo nos queda el humano error.
Sin mas, te saludo y espero entonce noticias de la convenida Fe de Erratas, para lo cual te autorizo a publicar este intercambio epistolar.
un abrazo
Marcos
PD.: Gracias Roberto por tu preciosa colaboracion.
2012/2/21 Mario Lopez <lonko@vtr.net>
Tu informacion segun veo esta mas profundamente basada que la mia. Yo lei por primera vez acerca de esa tabala hace años en el libro The secret relations between Blacks and Jews . Y despues se me repitio exactamente la misma muchas veces . El trabajo que te diste tu ( leer Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.) no me lo he dado.SaludosUn gran abrazo y GRACIAS por la info.----- Mensaje original -----Enviado: Martes, 21 de Febrero de 2012 12:00 p.m.Asunto: Re: barcos esclavistas y propietarios desprepuciadosHola Mario.
Me has hecho leer... condenado.Pero me parece que no fui claro en mi respuesta.Yo no dudo que haya infinitos links en la WEB que hagan referencia a esta participacion de intereses desprepuciados en el trafico de esclavos. Lo que tu llamas "citas espejo".... y con la cual me has textualmente tapado de info.Lo que yo pregunto es si esos espejos reflejan un objeto real o una mentira?Sabes, si tu colocas un sorete entre dos espejos tambien se reflejan infinitamente....Todas las citas y los post y los sitios hacen referencia a los cuatro famosos tomos de la E. Donnan... libros imposible de hallar...Bien! Los tenemos!! Como hacemos para usarlos en ratificar/rectificar la tablita esta?!De quien eran los barcos traficantes de esclavos?
Nombre del barco Dueño Origen Abigail
Crown
Nassau
Four Sisters
Anne & Eliza
Prudent Betty
Hester
Elizabeth
Antigua
Betsy
Polly
White Horse
Expedition
Charlotte
CaracoaAaron Lopez, Moses Levy, Jacob Franks
Issac Levy y Nathan Simpson
Moses Levy
Moses Levy
Justus Bosch y John Abrams
Henry CrugeryJacob Phoenix
Mordecai y David Gomez
Mordecai y David Gomez
Nathan Marston y Abram Lyell
Wm. De Woolf
James De Woolf
Jan de Sweevts
John y Jacob Roosevelt
Moses y Sam Levy y Jacob Franks
Moses y Sam LevyJudio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
JudioFuente : Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.Yo no dudo que vos, honestamente, has creido veraz la info encontrada e infinitamente reflejada en infinitas paginas. Pero tambien tienes que reconocerme que si yo busco en infinitas paginas de la colectividad voy a encontrar infinitas ratificaciones de que Yaveh es el unico dios.... y el pueblo elegido... y otras tantos fundamentalismos necios.Nosotros no somos ni fundamentalistas ni necios.¿Como hacemos?Un abrazoMarcosPD.: Te adjunto un par de paginas scanneadas de alguna tabla del Vol II pag. 642 y sucesivas. Puedes ver que hay solo 6 de los 15 barcos de tu tabla... pero inmersos en 150 registros mas... correspondientes a la linea Liverpool-Africa durante el año reportado. Tambien encontraras que no coincide el Owner con el Dueño... y que es imposible remotarse sobre el Origen (judio) a partir de los datos alli contenidos...Ademas puedes ver que Donnan toma los datos de otro fuente: La tabla informada por E. Donnan ha sido tomada de Williams pp. 681-685 como cita la referencia en p.642.Sería una pena que tantos sitios bienintencionados que defienden derechos genuinos de pueblos originarios diezmados por "razas superiores" que festejan el "Dia de la Raza"... queden vulnerables a criticas de Hoax por repetir y repetir una informacion falsa.Repito ¿Como hacemos?Ruegote: No me tapes de informacion copy-pasteada. Respondeme llanamente.
2012/2/20 Mario Lopez <lonko@vtr.net>
The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews
The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews was written for the Historical Research Department of the Nation of Islam and takes the form of a perfectly normal academic book. It tells us that the Jews had a major presence in the slave trade which sent many thousands of negroes from Africa to America and the West Indies. This annoyed a lot of Jews and resulted in various attacks. Some were on Tony Martin, a professor of Wellesley College because he used the book in his teaching. One of the attacks on him comes from the Wikipedia. It reads as one of their standard biographical pieces but gives us as much discreditable information as possible without seeming to be obviously biased.Jews ran the slave trade. Jews blame us. Communist subversives which is to say Jews and their Useful Idiots use it to manufacture Western Guilt so that they can manipulate us. It is the same with theBolshevik Revolution in 1917. Jews set it up; Jews blame us.The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and JewsQUOTE
This book is remarkably well researched. The quotes are all from Jewish sources [ see Blacks and Jews History Selected Bibliography - Editor ] and no others are included because of the risk of anti-Semitic bias... Its describes the Jews creation of the trans-Atlantic slave trade....... I am a cultural anthropologist so I checked out as many references as I could and they were all authentic.... There are some fresh insights into the role that the Jewish merchants played in the genocide against Native American Indians. It was a Jewish merchant that supplied the infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the English. So that they could reduce their numbers on the East coast of America with small pox.
UNQUOTE
and
QUOTE
I am a cultural anthropologist so I checked out as many references as I could and they were all authentic. Particularly chilling are the personal correspondence between Jewish slave owners about their private lives and slavery. Incest and venereal disease was common place amongst them but this did not act as any kind of obstacle since the lure of huge profits clashed with personal scruples
UNQUOTE
The reviewer is telling the truth or not. It is that simple and checkable. I will be checking.The Washington Post did a major article acknowledging the major role of Jews in the slave trade
QUOTE
Most Americans don't realize either that the transatlantic slave trade was driven by the sugar trade. Sugar cane was a scarce medicinal plant in medieval Europe. But when white colonizers started cultivating sugar in the fertile tropics of the Americas, it rapidly became a staple-and a great source of wealth for Europe's shipping and trading powers. This New World economy of sugar and slaves-of vast, labour-intensive plantations-began in earnest in Brazil during the 1500s, according to historians. The involvement of Jews in black slavery began there also.
UNQUOTE
The source is www.blacksandjews.com so it is just as trustworthy as The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and JewsThe Secret Relationship Between Blacks And Jews Volume II
QUOTE
In 1991 the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, National Representative of The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammadand the Nation of Islam (NOI), released the first of several volumes in the scholarly series entitled The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews........
In its 334 pages The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, Volume One, conclusively proved the veracity of The Minister's position, revealing that Jews were in fact at the very center of the trans-Atlantic slave trade as merchants, financiers, shippers, and insurers and among the leading international marketers of the products of African slave labor. This information was compiled from texts written by prominent Jewish scholars and historians such as Dr. Jacob Rader Marcus, Dr. Marc Lee Raphael, Dr. Bertram W. Korn, Dr. Abraham Karp, Dr. Herbert I. Bloom, Isaac S. Emmanuel, and Leo Turitz—all of whom were also rabbis. Today, The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, Volume One, can be found in the collections of every major academic library, including those of every Ivy League college and university.
UNQUOTE
So there you have; Jews were at it then. Jews are at it now.Jews, Slaves, and the Slave Trade - Setting the Record Straight QUOTE
Jews, Slaves, and the Slave Trade: Setting the Record Straight (Reappraisals in Jewish Social and Intellectual History): Books: Eli Faber by Eli ..."www.amazon.com/Jews-Slaves-Slave-Trade-Reappraisals/dp/0814726380
>From Publishers Weekly
In response to the outrageous accusations levelled against Jews by Nation of Islam preachers and some other black nationalists, this scrupulously researched book details the actual role Jews played in the Atlantic slave trade. Faber, a professor of history at the City University of New York, has pored over tax records shipping manifests, Royal Naval Office records, and contemporary accounts of Jewish life to discover the unsurprising truth: the majority of Jews in England's Caribbean and North American colonies were merchants and tradesmen, lived in towns rather than on farms or plantations and owned approximately the same number of slaves as their non-Jewish town-dwelling neighbours. The Sephardic Jews' knowledge of languages and their family and religious connections to communities all over the world gave them advantages as traders, but they preferred to import fabrics and silver rather than slaves. While some Jews did engage in the slave trade, and a large number of Jewish households in Jamaica and Barbados owned a few slaves, the tiny number of Jews living in the English colonies at the time made their involvement minimal. The slave trade was run by and for the benefit of non-Jews, and was finally brought to an end by the same people. Packed with statistics (one-half of the book is appendices and footnotes), this isn't easy reading, but Faber's scholarship is stunning. One of the most interesting aspects of the book is the insight it gives into historical research. If those claiming the Jews enslaved millions of Africans can't discover the truth, it's because they don't want to. Copyright 1998 Reed Business Information, Inc.
The Los Angeles Times Sunday Book Review, Peter Kolchin
Jews, Slaves and the Slave Trade ... serves as a useful footnote to recent scholarship detailing the size and character of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. For anyone in search of ammunition to refute farfetched claims about Jewish culpability for the enslavement of Africans in America, this is the place to look.
UNQUOTE
Believe this if you want but check honest sources first.
The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews by Historical Research Department of the Nation of Islam (Paperback - 1991)Ministry of Lies: The Truth Behind the Nation of Islam's "the Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews"
by Harold Brackman
Doctor Brackman was engaged by the Wiesenthal mob to refute the Nation of Islam's book. He did but it turns out that he was arguing against the realities that he recorded in his doctoral thesis. Money comes first. The truth comes nowhere. SeeHarold Brackman & Critics of Black Intellectuals also Jews and the Black Holocaust - Ahmed RamiJew-hatred as history: An analysis of the Nation of Islam's "The Secret relationship between Blacks and Jews by Marc Caplan (Unknown Binding - 1994)
Empire of Hate: A Refutation of the Nation of Islam's "the Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews" by Nat Trager (Paperback - Aug 1995) Farrakhan's Reign of Historical Error: The Secret Relationship Between Blacks & Jews by Harold BrackmanJew on the brain: A public refutation of the Nation of Islam's The Secret relationship between Blacks and Jews by Harold David Brackman (Unknown Binding - 1992)Jewish Slave Ship Owners QUOTEFor decades, the White people of America have been subjected to a continual barrage from Blacks and others that you and I are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade and that we need to "atone" for our "guilt." Their are a number of flaws with the idea that we are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade. First of all, very few White people even owned slaves-slavery was a rich man's pursuit and slavery did not exist amongst the middle and working classes of White people. Second of all, even if every one of us had an ancestor who owned slaves (which is an extremely unlikely proposition), it makes little sense to blame the children for the supposed sins of their fathers. Third of all, it is a fact that Blacks sold their own kind into slavery. As this is the case, Blacks are every bit as much to blame for slavery as are Whites. Fourth, European Whites did not bring the slaves to America. On the contrary, it was the Asiatic Jews who brought them here (as Louis Fahrakkan has also pointed out). Below is a listing of the Jewish slave ships and the Jewish owners of them.
Crown
Nassau
Four Sisters
Anne & Eliza
Prudent Betty
Hester
Elizabeth
Antigua
Betsy
Polly
White Horse
Expedition
Charlotte
Caracoa
Moses Levy
Moses Levy
Justus Bosch and John Abrams
Henry Cruger and Jacob Phoenix
Mordecai and David Gomez
Mordecai and David Gomez
Nathan Marston and Abram Lyell
John and Jacob Roosevelt
Wm. De Woolf
James De Woolf
Jan de Sweevts
Moses and Sam Levy and Jacob Franks
Moses and Sam Levy
Jews
Jew
Jew
Jews
Jews
Jews
Jews
Jews
Jew
Jew
Jew
Jews
Jews
JewsSource: Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.So, my fellow White American, there is nothing whatsoever to feel guilty about concerning slavery and it is time to quit apologizing for something others are responsible for. Besides, approximately six hundred thousand White soldiers died in the American Civil War. Have you ever heard of Blacks paying homage to or thanking these men?
UNQUOTEAccording to Maritime.Archives@liverpoolmuseums.org.uk
QUOTE
Probably the best source of information concerning ships, masters, manifests and owners is the TransAtlantic Slave Trade Database published by Cambridge University Press. It contains records of 27,233 trans-Atlantic slave ship voyages made between 1595 and 1866. in a format that allows users to track information by time period and geographic region, and includes interactive maps that allow viewers to chart the trans-Atlantic connections. The accompanying data contains materials about people on board, owners and captains, ships' characteristics, and the geographic trajectory of each voyage. There is a copy available to view at the British Library Humanities and Social Sciences, St Pancras Reading Rooms.
UNQUOTEErrors & omissions, broken links, cock ups, over-emphasis, malice [ real or imaginary ] or whatever; if you find any I am open to comment.
Email me at Mike Emery. All financial contributions are cheerfully accepted. If you want to keep it private, use my PGP Key. Home Page
Updated on Friday, 08 April 2011 21:00:58Enviado: Lunes, 20 de Febrero de 2012 11:32 a.m.Asunto: Re: barcos esclavistas y propietarios desprepuciadosHola Mario Lopez Ibañez, Gran Oráculo Trasandino
Bueno, en uno de nuestros ultimos intercambios sobre el tema de comercio de esclavos donde tu nos ilustrabas en tu pagina Chiwulltun con una tablita tomada del libro deSource: Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.
Yo te pedia indicaciones sobre la fuente, para poder chequear... puesto que me encontraba entreverado con un viejo amigo esceptico y vos me decias que eran libros agotados y secuestrados por la corpo del engaño.Bueh! Heme aca. Tengo los libros!En attach la foto con sus lomos.Pero visto que son 4 tomos, con 600 pag. c/u (total 2400 pag) no será facil encontrar 15 nombres... de 15 barcos en semejante berenjenal.Alguna sugerencia?GurúMarcos
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El 17 de febrero de 2012 13:15, Mario Lopez <lonko@vtr.net> escribió:
La Relacion secreta de los afroamericanos con los judios ( en ingles) Si lo encuentras eres mi guru. Lo compraron ( los de siempre y lo sacaron del mercado.
Farrajan exige compensaciones a los judíos :: Daniel Pipes
13 Jul 2010 – En ella, anuncia que los libros (el volumen dos de La secreta relaciónentre negros y judíos y Judíos que comercian con negros: El comercio ...Saludos----- Mensaje original -----Enviado: Viernes, 17 de Febrero de 2012 12:10 p.m.Asunto: barcos esclavistas y propietarios desprepuciadosHola Mario,
Retomo este mail viejo que me quedara en el tintero.De donde sacaste la cita?Resulta que hace semanas que trato de ubicar el libro y parece que es mas dificil que la m.Sería un libro antiguo (1935) agotado. Hay que acudir a bibliotecas... pero en las ciudades pequeñas no hay semejante detalle. Alguna idea?Tu post en Chiwulltun lo sacaste de algun lado?o es de tu autoria?
He encontradoResulta que en estas pequeñas cruzadas personales para evangelizar conciencia me he topado con un viejo amigo de la facultad que es medio agnostico. Le he copiado varios de tus envios mas otros propios. Y hemos quedado enredados en este tema. Creo que si logro probarle que la tabla adjunta proviene de un libro real y que el autor no es un delirante ni un conspiranoico sino que habla de buena fe, habré ganado un round en su confianza y quizas en su propio auto-desengaño.Son las pequeñas contribuciones domesticas a la conciencia universal con la cual nos sentimos deudor.Puedes ayudarme?Un abrazoMarcos
El 5 de febrero de 2012 14:22, Mario Lopez <lonko@vtr.net> escribió:
De quien eran los barcos traficantes de esclavos?
Nombre del barco Dueño Origen Abigail
Crown
Nassau
Four Sisters
Anne & Eliza
Prudent Betty
Hester
Elizabeth
Antigua
Betsy
Polly
White Horse
Expedition
Charlotte
CaracoaAaron Lopez, Moses Levy, Jacob Franks
Issac Levy y Nathan Simpson
Moses Levy
Moses Levy
Justus Bosch y John Abrams
Henry CrugeryJacob Phoenix
Mordecai y David Gomez
Mordecai y David Gomez
Nathan Marston y Abram Lyell
Wm. De Woolf
James De Woolf
Jan de Sweevts
John y Jacob Roosevelt
Moses y Sam Levy y Jacob Franks
Moses y Sam LevyJudio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
Judio
JudioFuente : Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.Otra ...
- El 80% de las empresas traficantes de esclavos africanos eran de propiedad de judios http://chiwulltun.blogspot.com/2008/08/el-80-de-las-empresas-traficantes-de.html?spref=tw
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